#gloam eyed queen

[littlebambdraws]

The Dark Flame Queen 

2 Days before Shadow Of The Erdtree

[thatboreddrake]

Okay, bare with me on this one, because I am operating on a grand total of like, two lines of dialogue and a dream: a dream of finally getting a solid-ish number on the Elden Ring Timeline!

So, the first line of dialogue, which Ranni delivers during the cutscene for the Age of Stars ending:

Now cometh the age of the stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon (emphasis added)

Fine, vague, poetic.

The second line, delivered by Miquella during the fight with Promised Consort Radahn if the player is hit by the grab attack:

"I promise you, a thousand-year voyage guided by compassion."

Now, once is vague, but twice just might mean something. Could it be metaphorical for "this is gonna be a long time"? PROBABLY BUT WHO CARES!

This brings me to my first main point: we have an official time-stamp on how often ages and gods cycle in the Lands Between, presumably. This means that this is a semi-regular phenomenon which could be looked for upon its arrival. Or perhaps, this time of transition is marked by visitors:

It is said that when Oracle Envoys appear playing their pipes, they do so to herald the arrival of a new god, or age.

Anyway, this allows me to slap together a somewhat coherent timeline of events for Elden Ring (effing finally):

The age we will start with is the Age of Dragons, led by Placidusax as Elden Lord (Remembrance of the Dragonlord) with Uhl, the Fire Giant, as the vessel of the Fell God and centered on the power of the Crucible (blatant speculation but its headcanon at this point). In the last few hundred years of the Age of the Crucible, the Hornsent begin to focus their efforts on producing a viable Empyrean to ascend to godhood for the next age. Side note, but this would also be when the denizens of the Eternal Cities were working on their project with the Lord of Night.

Anyway, through one way or another, Marika is chosen by the Fingers to serve as the Greater Will's vessel in the Lands Between after her village is butchered by the Potentates. This is also approximately when a proto-Radagon enters the scene through Empyrean mitosis (Marika severed her desire for order after the death of her family as per the Minor Erdtree incantation). For a time, Marika plays along with the Hornsent, if only to establish her base of power.

Her first stop is at the Eternal Cities, where she attempts to convince the Nox to join with her in the upcoming war against the Fire Giants. The Nox reject her upcoming divinity in favor of their Lord of Night, killing proto-Radagon with the Fingerslayer Blade as a symbol of their rejection. The Greater Will does not stand for this insolence, and sends the Malformed Star Astel to devour their sky and cast them beneath the earth.

Marika then allies with the berserker warlord Hoarah Loux and begins her assault on the Fire Giants of the Mountaintops. After all, their flame would be the one thing that could threaten the Erdtree during her reign. She manages to slay Uhl in battle, and shunts proto-Radagon's soul into his body, thus birthing Radagon as a proper Lord. However, at this point, Marika is diverted from her mission by the First War of the Dragons.

Emboldened by the defeat of Placidusax's god, Bayle the Dread leads his brood of drakes in a direct assault on Farum Azula. To counteract this threat, Placidusax sends the Ancient Dragon Florissax to instruct their erstwhile human allies in the practice of Dragon Communion. Among these, the greatest knight and leader of their order was Theodorix, a troll freed from the Fire Giants during Marika's initial assault. It is during this war that Marika and Radagon bear the kindling twins, Messmer and Melina.

Where Messmer fights on the front lines alongside Radagon and Godfrey, Melina instead takes up tutelage under Maliketh, Marika's Black Blade. After the war is over, and Placidusax has had three of his heads removed, he sees that the age of the dragons has come to a close and moves Farum Azula outside of time to await the return of his god.

Keeping their momentum, Marika and her forces carry on to complete their destruction of the Fire Giants, realize that the flame cannot be put out, and leave a nameless giant in charge of tending the forge. At this point, the time of ascension arrives, and Marika ascends to godhood using Radagon as her Lord catalyst. However, afraid of exposing Radagon's true nature to their followers, Marika instead takes Godfrey as the First Elden Lord, ushering in the Age of Plenty (Blessed Dew Talisman).

With her seat of power established, Marika dispatches her champions to complete their conquest of the Lands Between. Godfrey goes south to Limgrave to do battle with the Storm Lord and the inhabitants of the Weeping Peninsula. Radagon also goes south, but stops in the swamps of Liurnia to challenge the kingdom of sorcerers, who have been united under the rule of one calling herself the Full Moon Empyrean. Messmer, meanwhile, travels back to Belurat to exact vengeance against the Hornsent for their treatment of the shamans. It was this last expedition that was closest to Queen Marika's heart, and thus were they accorded the greatest share of golden grace of any of the Erdtree's armies.

In the ensuing 700 years or so, things proceed as normal. Messmer slaughters the Divine Beasts and burns the country to ashes. Godfrey's conquest of Limgrave nears its conclusion and he sets his eyes towards the Caelid Wilds. Radagon has fought two wars in Liurnia, finally forging an alliance with the House of Caria through his marriage to Rennala. Beneath all this, an old god conspires to put its own Empyrean on the throne.

Per Prince of Death canon (it is canon to me!), Melina is selected as an Empyrean vessel by the Deathbird who pushes her towards rebellion by exposing the injustices perpetrated under Marika's rule. Melina's breaking point is when Marika abandons her own children, the twin Omens Mohg and Morgott, for the sake of keeping up appearances (or so it seems). Taking the moniker of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Melina marches to Leyndell to cast Marika down from her throne and slay the Elden Beast with black fire.

This rebellion is stopped by Maliketh's timely intervention. He bests his former pupil in combat and, under Marika's orders, seals the Destined Death which gives her flame its deadly bite. It is at this time that the Land of Shadow becomes Shadowed, as Marika fears how Messmer may respond when he discovers that his sister has "died" in a rebellion against their mother. However, Marika's heart is not of stone. She sees anew that which had driven her daughter to such desperate measures, and vows to reexamine the fundamental tenets of the Golden Order.

Remembering what happened to the last civilization to deny the Greater Will, however, Marika banishes Godfrey and his Tarnished warriors from the Lands Between. Should another star come to punish the land, she would not have her beloved caught in the blast zone. Thus ends the Age of Plenty; Marika plucks the very concept of true death from the Elden Ring and the blessings of the Erdtree slowly begin to dry up.

Here, the Ancient Dragon Gransseax sees an opportunity to restore the Ancient Dragons to primacy in the Lands Between and assaults the very walls of Leyndell itself. However, he did not account for the tenacity of humankind, nor the power of Godfrey's son, Godwyn. Godwyn leads Marika's order to victory in this Second War of the Dragons, forging an alliance with the Ancient Dragon Fortissax.

Seeking to keep Marika loyal, the Greater Will recalls Radagon to serve as Elden Lord in Leyndell, threatening his family with true death at the hand of the Black Blade should he refuse. Together, Marika and Radagon usher a new thousand years of history, an Age of Order.

Towards the final quarter of this new age (fully guestimating here), Marika sees that she is running out of time to find a solution to the cycling of ages and gods. Conspiring with her step-daughter Ranni, she plots to use a fragment of Destined Death to sever both herself and Radagon from the Greater Will's control, if only to free them both from the curse of immortality. However, plagued by internal conflict and mistrust, Ranni takes this opportunity to free herself from the machinations of Manus Celes, a Two Fingers serving its own god. Marika is distraught as, rather than severing her own fate, she is instead left to deal with the aftermath of the death of her beloved son, Godwyn.

In a final act of desperation, seeking to end the cycle once and for all, Marika takes up her hammer and shatters the Elden Ring, that which represents order itself. Aghast at her actions, Radagon joins her inside the Erdtree, sealing the entrance using an aberrant sorcery to create a barrier of impenetrable thorns. He sought to repair the damage done to the Elden Ring, but erecting the barrier bled him nearly dry. Seeking to protect its last hope of maintaining control, the Elden Beast fuses Marika and Radagon into one and stuffs the shattered fragments of the Elden Ring into the gaping wound in their side. There, the fused, fractured deity would hang for hundreds of years, until the time for ascension came again, and the envoys arrived once more to herald the arrival of a new lord.

[facts-i-just-made-up]

Who is the Gloam Eyed Queen?

Seriously nobody seems to have suggested that "gloam eyed" means "closed eye." I think Messmer and Melina are the Gloam Eyed Queen's offspring, and I think she is likely a snake who married Plasidusax.

Oh wait this is to the Fact blog not my Elden Ring blog. Uh...

The Gloam Eyed Queen was Jackie Onassis because she really liked that one Radiohead song.

[sialiaaaa]

idk if it's entirely lore consistent but im happy accepting the dlc as answering most of my melina questions

so the lucy headcanon is:

- melina and messmer are marika's second- and first-born respectively

- both were cursed by the Fell God with fire in the ways that are evident in-game (messmer's flame, melina's kindling nature)

- melina's purpose being "given to [her] by [her] mother" refers to how her mother's actions got her cursed. she may even have been born "burnt and bodiless".

- the Gloam-Eyed Queen is a title or outer god influence that Melina inherited/has/whatever (it never comes up but there's no other satisfying explanation for the purple eye so idk)

- last crackpot theory: messmer was born with the fell god's curse and melina was born with the gloam-eyed queen's. as part of marika's plan to destroy the golden order (and to stop the GEQ) she burned melina with messmer's flame, leaving her burnt and bodiless, sealing her eye, and giving her her purpose as kindling

im reasonably certain i could ruin these theories with some evidence somewhere so if that happens ill mentally revise, but for now it makes me feel better about the lack of melina info

[katyspersonal]

Okay Lore Queen

What are your thoughts on Melina being the GEQ? Is there real evidence for it or was this another overblown “Miquella is Griffith” theory trend?

Awww, am I Lore Queen? 🥺

Okay, to be honest.. not only I am sure there is no solid evidence in the game itself for this, but also I completely missed the spreading of this theory, apparently fdhhfdfds The first time I ever heard that it exists and is popular was a video from Zullie! I don't remember which, but the line that 'many people suggested she might be Gloam-Eyed Queen herself' surprised me! Until that point I did not even consider the connection, I just thought that she was given Destined Death long ago just in case if things go BAD, or something along those lines?

As for the reasoning, there are a few things:

Maliketh is said to have sealed Destined Death, Gloam-Eyed Queen's power, and the seal on her eye DOES look like a clawmark! Melina only mentions that she will "give Destined Death" in Frenzied Flame ending, when this eye is unsealed, helping the assumption that the power of Destined Death was what got sealed in her until this point!

Her sealed eye is also pretty 'gloam'! More than that: her Japanese name is 宵眼の女王, and 宵 more specifically means nightfall, early night, late evening, twilight or dusk. Fun fact: her eye is similar to literal color 'Dusk'!

( x ) Not only pre-patched version mentioned her as Dusk-Eyed Queen first, but it also makes sense to name Fia's ending as 'Age of Duskborn'! Granted, I am not sure people thought under this angle, but even then, gloam means dark and Melina's eye still qualified :p

There is also that besides Marika, only her children got to be chosen as Empyreans: Ranni, Malenia and Miquella! So whereas some people believed GEQ was chosen by the Two Fingers as Greater Will grew dissatisfied with Marika (oh those pre-SOTE times...), others believed GEQ was a daughter of Marika who rebelled! Melina being daughter of Marika but strikingly "underwhelming" for a Demigod for the lack of better term could also mean that she had her true power taken! The Godskin prayerbook is also oddly found in Stormveil, so if we assume it was one of the treasures Godrick stole from Leyendell, what exactly was it doing in Leyendell to begin with? :p

Finally, the DLC added this bit:

So now we know Melina, rather than being given some sort of fire powers by Marika, was more likely naturally possessing "vision of fire"! Maybe cursed, or maybe it was just her nature connecting with the burning of the Erdtree!

So... yeah, these clues feel more like 'material for interpretation and speculation' than as a solid evidence that there IS something here, right? I think GEQ also feeling "too important" played its role! Fromsoft does have a strange brand of mentioned characters, so for me it was simpler to skip this theory as Elden Ring was not my first game from them! But they like to drop that mentioned character who feels so significant that the audience just CAN'T believe they only exist in memories and description but never were encountered in the game! Off the top of my head, Bloodborne for example has 'Suspicious Beggar is Izzy', and sometimes EVEN 'Rom is Caryll'! Again, as someone used to them doing the thing, I'd not be surprised that we never would meet GEQ!

OKAY you wanted my THOUGHTS, not just analysis, right? I think this idea is cool! It has to deal with several assumptions, but... most Elden Ring theories do anyway... 🙄 It would also make Marika giving Melina her purpose so funny fdfdsdh Just going "Hey, you wanted to slay gods once? Well I have good news-" before the Shattering fdshfhfds Personally, I go back and forth about it, and recently I am stronger on the side of not believing that Melina is GEQ!

My impression from GEQ is that she was an equal of Marika, chosen at the same time as her and on the same terms as her! Ancient Elden Ring not only featured Crucible and Divine Spiral, but also Destined Death Rune! Needless to mention that Destined Death Rune is opposite of Marika's Rune by concept, color and design!

This makes me feel as though GEQ and Marika were some sort of balance for one another: Marika was day, light and life and GEQ was night, darkness and death! GEQ's fire is God-Slaying Flame, something to ensure that nothing and no one can live forever. GEQ being a daughter of Marika does not have a very "equal" vibe to it. However, Marika wanted to be 'eternal' and believed herself to be worthy of seizing that power! She would decide who dies 'a true death' and how, and it sure would NOT be her or her children!

So, Melina was born with a curse for the same reason why Messmer was born with a curse. Karmic retributions for destroying GEQ, Fell God and what happened to Belurat where Romina is from respectively! Marika tried to deceive the fate and make a better world, but unfortunately as far as Greater Will was concerned back then, it made the world capable of "self-correcting". On the other hand, Romina is survivor of Belurat and it backfired on Malenia, whereas wraiths that haunt Omens are horned spirits so maybe Mohg and Morgott were result of victims of the Crusade cursing everyone living under Marika's light. No matter how much she tries, she can't remove 'dangerous', 'destructive', 'evil' things from nature.

Melina's eye also could imply something else!

(Images by Zlofsky) Shadowbeasts (Maliketh and Blaidd) do have this eye color as well! Maliketh doesn't have eyes, however Beast Eye he gives us as Gurranq is most likely his own! So, ignoring 'dusk-eyed' thing, what if his second eye was used to replace Melina's real one, similarly to how Marika used her seal to replace Messmer's real eye?

Alternatively, since Shadowbeasts are not just vassals of Empyreans, but also assassins in the situation if Empyrean resists the will of the Two Fingers, the similar coloration might be because conceptually Melina and Shadowbeasts are similar! Melina is our friend, helping us to grow stronger, but at the same time she is the one to come assassinate us if we fuck up big time, right?

I also agree with the idea that this statue likely depicts GEQ herself! Not just because non-optional Godskin Apostles, Wormfaces and actually guarded Destined Death itself are in Farum Azula! But also because these three wolves appear to be conjoined, which makes me think of a youkai Kamaitachi!

There is a youkai, Kamaitachi - a flying weasel spinning in whirlwhind and associated with strong winds in general that delivers sharp cut wounds but there is no bleeding or pain! Already sounds a bit like how Destined Death hurts in my opinion, especially seeing how some attacks of Godskins are also whirlwind-like! Kamaitachi's claws are also sickle-like! This is literally a name: kama is sickle and itachi is weasel.

So, unusual Shadowbeast for her! I also like to think that she had Scadutree like Marika had Erdtree. Removing Destined Death from the Elden Ring, and removing Shadow Realm, that IS the death realm, from the world's map..

I also question whether this statue's aesthetic is more akin to Rauh than it is to.. well, anything else:

There is an option Divine Beast boss fight in Rauh who, inexplicably, uses Deathblight in Phase 2 instead of storm-blizzard-lightning but there is NO Deathroot or Godwyn eyes in sight, so who knows?

______________________

So yeah, the theory does hold some weight and I can see that it is something fans could eventually come to even without communication with each other! It is not really just a fandom invention that became too popular! I just skipped through it because of how I read Fromsoft's lore personally, and now I bounce back and forth! I had a middle ground idea sort of, that it was not possible to kill GEQ but she became a baby and Marika raised her in order to control! (feel weaker on this one after Melina was called Messmer's just sister, not adopted or anything like that)

[bellepeppergirl]

Marika Was the Gloam-Eyed Queen

So, the most popular theory regarding the GEQ was that it was Melina. This does make sense; in the Flame of Frenzy ending, she promises to deliver Destined Death to us and reveals her sealed eye, which is gloam colored. Case solved? I don't think so.

As stated in the title, I believe Marika was the GEQ.

We know Marika comes from the Shaman/Miko Village and that her people were horrifically abducted and crammed into jars into to create "saints." This was likely a part of the Hornsent religion, whatever that may have been, likely relating to the Crucible. I feel like it would be understandable to wish to get revenge on whoever the god of the Hornsent may be, so she creates the Godskin Covenant.

The idea of taking the skin of the gods and melding them together to create clothes is very similar to what happened to the Shamans in the jars; a fitting way to seek retribution I think.

We can also see that the Rune of Death is an inverse of Marika's rune.

Interestingly, the statues of Marika that we can find in the Lands of Shadow, while initially looking identical to those from the Lands Between, albeit headless, are actually forming the shape of the Rune of Death, while those we were originally familiar with form Marika's rune.

On top of that, there is another statue we can find of Marika in the Lands of Shadow. This one is located in Messmer's arena and depicts Marika swaddling a baby.

Now, off the top of my head, there is only one other place that we see imagery like this and that is the Godskin Swaddling Cloth.

It mentions that she cradles the newborn apostles that were swaddled in this godly flesh and that they would eventually be raised to fight the gods. It is interesting then that these are the only two mentions of holding a baby in game, and it just so happens to be the place where Marika's statues happen to resemble the Rune of Death. Additionally, the Swaddling Cloth causes successive attacks to restore HP. Now, this could be a stretch, but Marika is also associated with healing. After all, it's her tears that increase the amount of HP we receive from a flask and we can find a healing incantation in her chambers.

Now, the trailers mention the Shadow Lands as the birthplace of Light and Shadow, and something about "the seduction and the betrayal." When it says this, we see Marika holding up a strand of hair at the Divine Gate and, as Quelaag pointed out in her videos, while she does this, we see light through the gate while a gloam-y sky is seen everywhere else.

What I personally think this means is that Marika was seduced by the Greater Will and the prospect of becoming a god, thus betraying the covenant that she herself formed and becoming what they swore to destroy. Furthermore, she continued the cycle of suffering by enacting the same cruelties performed on her people on those like the Omen, the Demihumans, and the Misbegotten.

I believe she then gave her Great Rune to Malekith, who hid it away while Marika pretended to be a completely different person. She would also hide away any signs of her past identity; the Shadowlands, for various reasons, would be sealed away, thus also hiding her past, and her firstborn daughter, Melina, was locked away in the Forbidden Lands. She was likely imprisoned because she bore the same power that Marika once had; the power of Death. Just like she did with the rest of her children, anything that reminded her of the past would be hidden away and forgotten.

The Godskins, feeling betrayed, have come the the Lands Between in order to enact that which they were quite literally born for. After all, the swaddling cloth essentially says that the GEQ raised them, acting as their mother, and teaching them to kill the gods. To have the person who you saw as a mother betray you by becoming what you were raised to hate would be a devastating blow and, of course, this would not be the only time Marika does this. In the Lands Between, the Godskins are seeking out that which they've lost; the sword that was once Marika's, the Rune that was given to Malekith, and the God-Devouring Serpent so that they may continue their goals.

And I believe that Marika shattered the Elden Ring because she realized what was happening; she understood that the past was coming back, no matter what she did. That her goals to create the "perfect world" by killing everyone she didn't like was a failure. She removed death so everyone could be happy and sing kumbaya around the Erdtree forever, but guess what. Her son STILL DIED despite death not even existing anymore. People are miserable being unable to die.

I think she also realizes that, not only was her plans a failure cuz the people she didn't like kept being born, but she was feeding this cycle of hatred. She fucked people over and now they're revolting against her. Why did she fuck them over? Because she was fucked over. And you know what, the Hornsent were probably also fucked over at some point, maybe by the people of Rauh.

I think her shattering the Elden Ring is akin to suicide; we never see her alive, never hear her speak, nothing. She is in pieces, just like the Elden Ring is. She is also impaled with a red spike, which looks oddly similar to the Rune of Death. If all I have said is true, then I believe the implication is she gave into despair, destroyed everything, and then killed herself.

Nothing changed. Nothing ever changed. And she was part of the problem this whole time, but by the time she realized, it was all too late.

But despite everything, hope persists. Despite the horrors inflicted upon Marika's people, Marika persisted. Despite the horrors Marika inflicted upon others, they persisted and continue to be born. As Melina says, the world is full of horrible things, and yet birth and life persists, and there's beauty in that. One day, the cycle will break.

[asklesbianonceler]

People are really out here now like

[spectrumos]

relaying a theory, and my narrative on it.

Edit: I said in this post I'd also write the narrative in a separate post, so here it is! It's also a slightly expanded and better edited version of it.

for two theory videos linked below.

This one was made pre-dlc

And this one post-dlc.

Send them both some love, they both have more to say on theory than I do.

Below is my attempt to convey both these videos and then my attempt to tell a narrativized version, which I will likely post again but separately.

"Solidified knotgrease made from a mixture of bone shards. The delightful festival is an old tradition; one old enough for the Erdtree to tacitly tolerate its endurance." Festive grease item.

made of blessed bone shards and yet it's full of flowers. odd.

You know where else is full of flowers? The shaman village of course. But where else?

Dominula!

The windmill village! Remarkably close to the Erdtree, and it contains a Godskin apostle! Why though?

Wouldn't you like to know!

Near the outskirts of Bonny village lies this giant snakeskin. Quite close to the tree and statue where you get the "O mother" gesture.

This leads to a theory that I had always believed a little bit, but the snakeskin, despite not being referenced in any descriptions or dialogue, feels quite important.

Especially because it shares a head shape with

THE GOD DEVOURING SERPENT!

and yet...

The skin near bonny village...

Is far larger than the one that ate Rykard!

So what snake is this second one?

THE GLOAM EYED QUEEN.

Now you may look at me like i'm INSANE and that's because I AM!

"Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh.

The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this sword." -Godslayer's greatsword

"A black flame incantation of the Godskin Apostles. Sweeps a wide area before the caster with black flame. Charging enhances range. The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost." - Scouring Black Flame.

"Superior black flame incantation of the Godskin Apostles. 

Summons a circle of black flame pillars around the caster. Charging increases the size of the circle.

The Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers." - Black flame ritual.

Chosen by the fingers, huh? This is the symbol for the blackflame incantations. It looks quite a lot like Metyr, I would think.

"Sacred cloth of the Godskin Apostles, made from supple skin sewn together.

Successive attacks restore HP.

The Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods." - Godskin Swaddling Cloth.

"Robe made by sewing together patches of smooth skin. Subcutaneous fat makes it plump and soft. Worn by Godskin Nobles, known for their seven-face aprons.

Strengthens the Noble Presence incantation.

Nobles are the most ancient apostles who are said to have ASSIMILATED INHUMAN PHYSIOLOGY Not unlike the crucible, the Erdtree in its primordial form." - Godskin Noble's robe.

The Godskin noble has a snake tail! And the solo noble boss fight is in the fucking temple of Eiglay in volcano manor! Where one of the snakeskins is!

The beast eye given by Gurranq/Maliketh is a rather similar color to

You guessed it! Melina being the GEQ has always been a popular theory, given her eye color and close relation with destined death!

but the things connecting it all is this

FIRST of all. Blaidd has near identically colored eyes. Why doesn't Maliketh have gloam eyes? The one who would have them is dead... mostly.

See there's some interesting lines Blaidd has.

A part of her very being.

Additionally, in Maliketh's arena is this statue.

Marika wears rather serpentine bracelets here, and some people have pointed out there seems to be scars on her wrist. Tooth whip scars?

This is the last piece of information/evidence I'm gonna post.

Below is my headcanon and narrative.

The temptation.

Leda mentioned a temptation.

Imagine it. A girl running from the toothed whip. Into the forest, taken in by wolves. Led to the fingers, whether it's their mother or just one of the pairs.

potentially given the Elden Ring at this point.

I've been partial to the idea that Marika was the first successful ahem "jar saint" because it's cool and ironic and tragic.

She meets the wolves and fingers either before or after the jarring, if she was jarred at all.

The three wolves are the three shadows. Maliketh, Blaidd, and the baleful shadow.

But what would make Maliketh Marika's half brother?

That's just it. Maliketh is a piece of Marika! "But how would he exist before meeting Marika?" You ask? Because Maliketh is only HALF Marika! Half empyrean! Her literal shadow because he's partially her!

But how is Marika the gloam eyed queen?

She followed Metyr's orders in her ascension! She skinned her first god at the divine gate! What followed would be one of the greatest slaughters she participated in! A god hunt! The elimination of the society that ascended the gate before!

But within her grew her rage against the gods! The hornsent mutilated her people in efforts to make the divine! In efforts to reach the gods!

Within her grew her will to be free! She turned against the fingers, viewing them as simply another god to be slain, as they all deserve!

And Maliketh goes MAD. Under the control of the fingers. Just. Like. Blaidd.

He defeats Marika/GEQ, takes destined death, and slays the parts of her that the fingers no longer desire.

The Gloam Eyed Queen is dead and gone, but secretly, she left two pieces of herself behind. One, her COLD FURY, her HUNGER for REVENGE.

A hunger that could devour the very gods.

The other... We'll get to that.

What is left is a hollow, golden, and "pure" queen. Missing base parts of herself. What parts? Who knows.

But the swaddling cloth implies motherhood. The gloam eyed queen wanted to be free! Marika lost that too.

She didn't desire children anymore, they were a duty. She built a culture as the fingers desired. She warred against all who would resist her rule. The society she created adhered to the biases left within her.

A hatred of snakes, fear of her past self.

A hatred of horns, fear of her past.

A hatred of anything like the crucible.

A hatred of anything that can't be controlled.

Her first child was with Godfrey. But it was not an Empyrean. The fingers were not pleased.

Her second child was with herself. Messmer, bearing a curse from the fell god, like his father. But far worse. An all consuming flame.

A blessing from his mother's dead self, that would eventually snuff the fire out.

The fingers, and Marika, were not pleased.

She feared her son and sent him to do an act of pure evil in her stead! She abandoned him!

Radagon leaves and marries Rennala.

But he's a good father that loves his children, and he's a good husband that loves his wife? What makes him different?

He's a larger piece of her loyalty, an unconscious decision to give herself more freedom. He's a piece of duty. so as to let her take more time to search the depths of the golden order. He is their fatherhood. Their less prevalent, masculine half.

When his third child is an Empyrean, the fingers are ecstatic. But they want to assure their control. They have Radagon connect her to her own two fingers, her own shadow would be made.

But queen Marika throws the fingers for a loop, stripping Godfrey and so many others of the Grace of Gold. Sending them to war in distant lands. The only one who understands her goals at this time is herself.

The fingers call Radagon back, to lay with himself, now that they KNOW Their puppet can make another.

But Radagon's marriage to Rellana was a sacred vow. Our favorite turtle Dog pope has something to say on that topic.

The severing of the vow would have disastrous consequences.

Radagon and Marika's second union would curse their two Empyrean children. Rotting and Unceasingly-Nascent.

Time passes, the fingers are begrudgingly satisfied. Ranni plots, and on the 'night' of the eclipse, Godwyn the Golden is killed, sending Marika into a pit of despair.

Whenever Radagon is joined with her, his loyalty suppressed their thoughts of rebellion. Thoughts of her master plan.

A plan who's conditions were not yet met. But despair is quite the powerful emotion.

The ring shatters, Radagon understands. The beast emerges from them. They are imprisoned.

But in their very last moments of control... The last piece of them to ever be removed again, their last, tiny little desire for freedom, and their desire to die, is removed.

And so is born Melina, a woman with a vision of fire and death.

[ericlvargas]

Roughing out some Elden Ring fanart, a speculative epilogue for one of the possible endings. Gonna tweak the composition a bit more I think then continue refining it.

[librarytones]

Okay full on tin hat lore concept.

Most (all?) empyreans have an eye missing, maybe two. And some of them are marked by what looks to be a death bird claw.

Some people think Melina is the gloam eyed queen, and, while I'm not completely against that, it just doesn't feel like it lines up to me. However, no matter what, we do see Melina in the end of the Frenzied Flame ending with the dusk-colored eye, made to hunt you down.

What if... That dusky eye, the gloam eye, is a separate thing. What if Empyreans are as powerful as they are because they can host an outer gods power there, in the eye.

Marika's soreseals are evidence of her own power in an eye format. Messmer seems to posses one, and it also seals back the abyssal serpent. Malenia's eyes are rotted out, filled instead with the scarlet rot. Mogh's eye is pierced with horn and blood. Shabriri grapes are an entire thing to try and get maidens to start feeling the frenzied flame. We don't even see Miquella's/Trina's eyes, as they seem almost permanently shut in slumber.

What if, in the frenzied flame ending, Melina has gone and retrieved something like Gurranq's beast eye, using it to carry the power and influence of the blackflame to hunt down the Lord of frenzied flame?

Elden ring has a LOT of eye imagery, even beyond the empyreans...

Will think on this more...

[irithylldancer]

Melina wields this dagger, but is it possible this description doesn't describe her? From what we understand, using oneself as kindling isn't unique to Melina (or Messmer). We can infer that Vyke's maiden was going to sacrifice herself as kindling, but he used his own body instead with the Frenzied Flame. Could this dagger have been found by Melina after the fact? And she found her purpose to become a maiden this way?

The second line, this is what makes people think she's connected to the Gloam Eyed Queen, but to me it sounds like the path of the Tarnished.

To walk alongside flame: travel with your maiden

Meet the road of Destined Death: claim the death rune back from Maliketh

I'm still thinking about the origins of Melina, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the current interpretations of her.

Editing to add: Blade of Calling... did this dagger somehow reach out to her? Or it attracts those with the potential to serve as Maidens?

And her last line in Flame of Frenzied ending: maybe destined death is the only way to kill a true lord of frenzied flame? Midra and Vyke were incomplete in that regards.

[knightscanfeeltoo]

Suscribing to "Messmer's Dad is Radagon and his Mom is probably the Gloam-Eyed Queen" Elden Ring Theory...

(And I cannot wait to have People Laugh at my Face when I'm Wrong anyway...)

[buriedknight]

The Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods.

[invertedlayers]

So Miyazaki said that he was done with dlc for elden ring but potentially not the entire series. He mentioned that the dlc would count as a break but isn't denying a potential sequel in the future. Considering everything to me I think a potential elden ring 2 would be more focused around Godwyn and maybe even gloam eyed queen. Both maybe? The status of the gloam eyed queen is technically unknown and godwyn is well...dead but not? He's spreading all around the lands in between and even found his way in the shadow lands. And considering his fish like appearance with the clam/oyster like head and the fish like tail the implications to me are there. He may find his way to other lands across the ocean. I'm not too sure about the gloam eyed queen but both are relatively unknown lore wise. What I mean by that is there's not much about them. Fromsoft is known to cut content like the fact that the cut content in base game Elden Ring blatantly stated that Miqullia is St. Trina and they used it to put that whole thing into the dlc but purposely withholding information about godwyn may mean they have plans for him? I'm not too sure about the gloam eyed queen but if you think about it they could go together. It WOULD make sense lore wise from what we got to me at least. And yes I know you can't exactly count on cut content but a cut content npc name rico pretty much blatantly stated that Miqullia was St. Trina so like...yeah. idk it's just fun to think about and theorize. Even if he decides to never make a sequel for elden ring its interesting to think about how one would go I guess...

[surelyspacejunk]

Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen

I've come to this conclusion because I think the simplest possible answer the game provides is going to be more convincing than the 5D chess theory crafting required to explain her existence. Convoluted theories of her being the GEQ's child, or the GEQ sealed in a child, or cursed from an Empyrean rival or what not require theorizing how Melina could end up with the GEQ's powers when the simplest answer is that she simply is the GEQ.

If that's not enough for you I've listed below several reasons why I've come to believe that Melina is the GEQ.

1. The Frenzied Flame Ending shows you that Melina is the GEQ.

The Frenzied Flame ending shows her vowing to deliver destined death to you with the appearance of the Gloam Eyed Queen. I don't think it gets any simpler than the game telling you who she is.

2. The Shadow Realms may imply that there is a period of time between Marika's Ascension and the establishment of the Golden Order.

I list this as important because it slots Melina's story neatly into a timeline where it can exist and make sense.

The two biggest hints that this period exists are the Marika statues and churches scattered across the land (even in places Messmer's crusade could not reach such as the Abyssal Woods) and the hornsents' fixation on Marika's betrayal.

Some people believe the betrayal happened shortly after (or during) her ascension but that doesnt don't really sit well with me because the hornsent would have needed to trust her first for the betrayal to feel real. No evidence in game shows that the hornsent had much respect for the shamans beyond them being great concrete goo, so it doesn't really make sense that they'd feel betrayed by someone they feel below them. If they felt someone below their station had become a god they didn't accept, they would surely use the word cheated would they not? But they don't use the word cheated, they use the word betrayed. For a betrayal to feel real, the hornsent would have needed to trust and consider her to be an important part of their culture first. Perhaps they did not care all that much that Marika was a shaman, just that she was a successful result of the Divine Gateway they built. Surely after all the sacrifices they must have felt some relief that it worked out?

So after her ascension, churches and stakes are propped up through out the land before they are abruptly slaughtered and sealed away during Messmer's campaign. Sometime between those two events is where the GEQ's story fits in.

3. Dominula's Rituals show that both the GEQ and Marika share similar cultural traditions. Festive Grease ties it back to traditions in the Shadow Realms.

There are a number reddit posts that have connected the braids of Dominula's festivals to Marika and the Godskins. This reddit post points out cultural overlap of the flowers, runes and visuals seem to imply that they are honoring Marika from traditions that predate the Erdtree, yet in practice seem to be in-line with what the Godskins celebrate. I believe that the festive grease implies that the flaying traditions were done by the Numen shamans themselves which was then picked up by worshipers in Dominula. Perhaps, Melina herself incorporates the cultural flaying in her faction as a twisted and bittersweet way to remember the shamans that came before her. With all this laid out, it's easy to conclude that the Erdtree allows the Dominula tradition to continue despite it's connection with the 'heretical' Godskins, because it has always been a part of Marika's heritage as well.

4. Ranni and Melina's sealed eye implies that they are both Empyreans. (more info for Miquella & Malenia to follow.)

I also like the theory that all of the Empyreans are one eyed which would neatly explain what similarities Melina and Ranni may have. There isn't much visual evidence that Miquella and Malenia were one eyed, but people on reddit speculated that Miquella could have literally meant that he had one eye when when said, “I abandon here my eye”. For Malenia, it could have been that the rot had already claimed one of her eyes in youth as we could see with Millicent's sisters, with differing variances of their sight being afflicted by the Scarlet Rot. Hers is admittedly the shakiest conjecture, but it's a theory I like that visually links Ranni and Melina and gives unity to all the Empyreans born under the Golden Order.

This reddit post is the one that put me on board with the one eyed empyrean theory which lists a lot of evidence for this pattern. There are some points that make me pause though, because I could not verify some of these claims, such as the One Eyed Marika statue supposedly located in the Round Table. If they are talking about the Colosseum Marika, I think the statue is simply too damaged for that to be verifiable.

That said, I think this is an interesting observation, and it'd be interesting to see fanart of Miquella with one eye.

4. Melina is one of three other people who are familiar with Torrent, two of which are Empyrean Demigods.

This one is simple. Torrent seems to have a nose for power. Ranni seems to be familiar with him and we see promo material of Miquella riding him in the Shadow Realms.

5. The Drama

The drama of a Marika having Maliketh kill her child who rebelled against her sounds so messy and inline with the rest of the family's mess that I can't help but enjoy it. This is not proof of anything, this is me admitting that accepting Melina as the GEQ aligns with my flavor of Rule of Cool. Not to mention it would be in character for both Fromsoft and GRRM to have a daughter rebel against her mother and be crushed and erased from history for it.

So if we assume Melina is the GEQ, the timeline would imply that:

Melina, first daughter of Marika is born as an Empyrean.

Gains control over the Rune of Death and the Godskin Apostles.

Implements characteristics of the Crucible in her Godskins (with their animal/snake like features) and adopts the practice of ritual flaying.

Comes into conflict with her mother, Marika and is defeated by Maliketh.

Marika creates The Golden Order.

Various wars to consolidate the Golden Order's power are launched.

The Messmer's crusades are launched and sealed away with the Shadow Realms and are forgotten.

The Shattering happens.

Melina is left as a somewhat amnesiac spectral version of herself until the Tarnished guides her on their journey back to the Erdtree.

The rest is up to us.

====

And that's that.

As usual, all this theory crafting is just for fun and can be right or wrong. I know I already disagree with some of my Messmer/Melina theories I myself wrote(lol) but I've settled on this one pretty strongly lately and wanted to share.

[katyspersonal]

^ I also think it check out that this statue in Farum Azula must depict Gloam-Eyed Queen, but what if the three wolves ARE her Shadowbeast?

There is a youkai, Kamaitachi - a flying weasel spinning in whirlwhind and associated with strong winds in general that delivers sharp cut wounds but there is no bleeding or pain! Already sounds a bit like how Destined Death hurts in my opinion, especially seeing how some attacks of Godskins are also whirlwind-like! Kamaitachi's claws are also sickle-like! This is literally a name: kama is sickle and itachi is weasel.

But also, in some region portrayals, this creature is actually a bundle of three creatures! Sometimes three evil gods, other times mother, father and son. One knocks you, another cuts you, and the last one applies medicine so that why their wounds never leave bleeding or pain! Notice how these wolves 'elongate' (again, reminds me of how Godskin Apostles do so too) and don't seem to have legs but rather coming from the same source. So, counts as one Shadowbeast of this Empyrean. Three bodies, one soul. I really feel like they might have been inspired by Kamaitachi, just animal being replaced with a wolf because of Shadowbeasts nature? 🤔